Comments on: Biz leaders say ‘no thanks’ to health reform http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/ Just another WordPress weblog Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:15:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Michelle http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1763 Michelle Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:11:20 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1763 I understand the fear of a government that is out of control, but I equally fear a market that is not in balance either. I do not see it as unreasonable to redress the appalling imbalance that has resulted in healthcare, to the detriment of individuals but also to the country as a whole. We need to have some control over the incessant profiteering that is feeding insurance companies and healthcare corporate interests, so that we can have a healthy, productive population. The huge social divide that is being created, with only the incredibly fortunate or utterly wealthy being able to have access to healthcare and the developing underclass of those who cannot get healthcare, is undermining the wellbeing of our country. I understand the fear of a government that is out of control, but I equally fear a market that is not in balance either. I do not see it as unreasonable to redress the appalling imbalance that has resulted in healthcare, to the detriment of individuals but also to the country as a whole.

We need to have some control over the incessant profiteering that is feeding insurance companies and healthcare corporate interests, so that we can have a healthy, productive population. The huge social divide that is being created, with only the incredibly fortunate or utterly wealthy being able to have access to healthcare and the developing underclass of those who cannot get healthcare, is undermining the wellbeing of our country.

]]> By: Shane http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1431 Shane Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:34:57 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1431 Mr. Ludwig, You are the most poignant voice I’ve heard to date on this venue. Thanks Mr. Ludwig,

You are the most poignant voice I’ve heard to date on this venue.

Thanks

]]> By: Fred Ludwig http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1423 Fred Ludwig Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:50:39 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1423 It seems to me that every person has a vision fixed in their mind about politics. We make it about personalities when in reality it is about government. When we believe that one individual holding the office of president is responseable for all that transpires is just plain stupid. One man or woman can not possibly know all that is going on. They can only express their opinions register their philosphy and direct what is important to them in a limited capacity. They are given far to much credit for making things happen. Take any president as they get into office. They immediately begin to surround themselves with people of like thinking. When they have ideas they want implimented everyone around them leap into action and get the wheels turning. Some things gain momentum and succeed and some stall, but the president goes merrily along getting his daily briefings and reassuing the public that he is satisfying their wishes and for those of like thinking he is. The government, president after president continues to function irregardless of the right or wrong of any programs, laws or direction instituted by the party in charge. And so it goes, we argue and insult one another getting more and more polarized by our views. We seldom if ever change each others vision to, why can't you see it my way. In the end the government grows and grows and grows until we have a self feeding giant out of control and incapable of running any meaningful program. You can't get a simple direct bill on any subject that it isn't a monster of governmet gobbley goop all tied together to satisfy the giants feeding. It doesn't matter whose president or what party as they are all pretty much the same. GIANT FEEDERS! We once had a meaningful constitution designed by some very smart people trying to prevent that giant from getting out of hand. It worked for along time, but somewhere along the way, we the people lost sight of the idea that we are in charge, not the government. Our founders knew that any government that could get to big could frighten people and create tryanny, but when the government was afraid of the people we could create liberty. I choose liberty. Think about it. It seems to me that every person has a vision fixed in their mind about politics. We make it about personalities when in reality it is about government. When we believe that one individual holding the office of president is responseable for all that transpires is just plain stupid. One man or woman can not possibly know all that is going on. They can only express their opinions register their philosphy and direct what is important to them in a limited capacity. They are given far to much credit for making things happen.
Take any president as they get into office. They immediately begin to surround themselves with people of like thinking. When they have ideas they want implimented everyone around them leap into action and get the wheels turning. Some things gain momentum and succeed and some stall, but the president goes merrily along getting his daily briefings and reassuing the public that he is satisfying their wishes and for those of like thinking he is. The government, president after president continues to function irregardless of the right or wrong of any programs, laws or direction instituted by the party in charge. And so it goes, we argue and insult one another getting more and more polarized by our views. We seldom if ever change each others vision to, why can’t you see it my way. In the end the government grows and grows and grows until we have a self feeding giant out of control and incapable of running any meaningful program. You can’t get a simple direct bill on any subject that it isn’t a monster of governmet gobbley goop all tied together to satisfy the giants feeding. It doesn’t matter whose president or what party as they are all pretty much the same. GIANT FEEDERS!
We once had a meaningful constitution designed by some very smart people trying to prevent that giant from getting out of hand. It worked for along time, but somewhere along the way, we the people lost sight of the idea that we are in charge, not the government. Our founders knew that any government that could get to big could frighten people and create tryanny, but when the government was afraid of the people we could create liberty. I choose liberty. Think about it.

]]> By: al simon http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1420 al simon Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:18:44 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1420 Sheila: BYE BYE have a great fantasy life. Sheila:

BYE BYE have a great fantasy life.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1418 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:09:56 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1418 "To belittle the Holocaust is unforgiveable. If you knew anything about what people went through, families being ripped apart, murder, rape, torture… something is wrong with you if you are minimizing this." Because I compare Obama to Hitler, I am NOT belittling anything. You just like to twist words around to suit yourself. I know EXACTLY what went on over there. Have you watched any of the old movies, real factual movies, documentaries in 8mm film, that I have???? I've seen it. I know what happened there. That is why I want to stop it before it happens here. That is NOT belittling it, that is WARNING people that the same thing can happen here when you stick your head in the sand. Obviously, if you think that my comments reflect Glenn Beck's comments in his books must show that YOU have read his books. Because I haven't read ANY of his books, my comments are my own. Perhaps Glenn Beck reads MY opinions on various blogs and is copying ME. Why don't you read Obamadolf's books and his wife's thesis paper, which will show you how racist they both are? Also, as far as healthcare sympathy from the Obamas, try looking into Michelle's tenure at the University of Chicago Medical Center and the patient-dumping plan she put in place. The American College of Emergency Physicians blasted her and their advisor Axelrod for their 'grand' plan of cherry-picking wealthy patients over poor ones. Her plan sent one woman's son to Cook County hospital after being ravaged by a pit bull. Michelle's hospital gave him a pain killer and the boot. Michelle's hospital is a non-profit and receives many tax breaks in exchange for treating charity cases for free. So with Michelle's plan in place, they keep the tax dollars and push the poor black boy out the door. THERE IS A FACT for you to think about. Check the Chicago Tribune and all the other Chicago news outlets and you will find the story. So much for how the Obamas 'care' about people without insurance. Open up your eyes. It's all about the money and the power. “To belittle the Holocaust is unforgiveable. If you knew anything about what people went through, families being ripped apart, murder, rape, torture… something is wrong with you if you are minimizing this.”

Because I compare Obama to Hitler, I am NOT belittling anything. You just like to twist words around to suit yourself. I know EXACTLY what went on over there. Have you watched any of the old movies, real factual movies, documentaries in 8mm film, that I have???? I’ve seen it. I know what happened there. That is why I want to stop it before it happens here. That is NOT belittling it, that is WARNING people that the same thing can happen here when you stick your head in the sand.

Obviously, if you think that my comments reflect Glenn Beck’s comments in his books must show that YOU have read his books. Because I haven’t read ANY of his books, my comments are my own. Perhaps Glenn Beck reads MY opinions on various blogs and is copying ME.

Why don’t you read Obamadolf’s books and his wife’s thesis paper, which will show you how racist they both are?

Also, as far as healthcare sympathy from the Obamas, try looking into Michelle’s tenure at the University of Chicago Medical Center and the patient-dumping plan she put in place. The American College of Emergency Physicians blasted her and their advisor Axelrod for their ‘grand’ plan of cherry-picking wealthy patients over poor ones. Her plan sent one woman’s son to Cook County hospital after being ravaged by a pit bull. Michelle’s hospital gave him a pain killer and the boot. Michelle’s hospital is a non-profit and receives many tax breaks in exchange for treating charity cases for free. So with Michelle’s plan in place, they keep the tax dollars and push the poor black boy out the door. THERE IS A FACT for you to think about. Check the Chicago Tribune and all the other Chicago news outlets and you will find the story.

So much for how the Obamas ‘care’ about people without insurance. Open up your eyes. It’s all about the money and the power.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1417 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:59:43 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1417 Also, how about EVERY government employee giving up their Cadillac insurance coverage and going on their state's Medicaid plan? THEN that will prove that the government's plan is just as good. Did you know that they have UNLIMITED coverage? There is no maximum. They have 24/7 coverage with whatever provider they want to use. Let's start with Obamadolf and start working down through the senators and representatives giving up their PRESTIGE insurance plans before they start to shove down our throats their "public option." Obamadolf PROMISED in his campaign rhetoric that every American would be able to join THEIR prestigious plan. I don't see any of that in any of these proffered health care bills. Where is it? Instead of writing up thousand page plans, just say it in a few words. "All Americans can have the same coverage as their senators." One sentence on one page. Now THAT would be a law that would pass quickly, wouldn't it? Get your heads out of the sand. Also, how about EVERY government employee giving up their Cadillac insurance coverage and going on their state’s Medicaid plan? THEN that will prove that the government’s plan is just as good. Did you know that they have UNLIMITED coverage? There is no maximum. They have 24/7 coverage with whatever provider they want to use. Let’s start with Obamadolf and start working down through the senators and representatives giving up their PRESTIGE insurance plans before they start to shove down our throats their “public option.” Obamadolf PROMISED in his campaign rhetoric that every American would be able to join THEIR prestigious plan. I don’t see any of that in any of these proffered health care bills. Where is it? Instead of writing up thousand page plans, just say it in a few words. “All Americans can have the same coverage as their senators.” One sentence on one page. Now THAT would be a law that would pass quickly, wouldn’t it? Get your heads out of the sand.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1416 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:55:23 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1416 Michelle: Please prove to ME where you get your information that so many DO NOT have healthcare. The street runs both ways, doesn't it? I've had insurance at every single job I've had. don't know what kind of people you are talking about. If they are in the service industry (waitress, bartender), they are definitely eligible for Medicaid. I know people who make the same money as I do and they are still eligible for a medical card from the state if their employer doesn't offer insurance. Where do YOU get your information from? The "evidence" supporting the fact of rich Americans not having an insurance plan has been in all the newspapers. What planet are you on? As far as your connections to people who are dissatisfied with their health care coverage, I'm sorry that you don't know very many people. Whoever I talk to about it, doesn't want the government intruding in their health care. WE ARE ALL SATISFIED. Maybe the government needs to root out all that fraud Obamadolf is talking about in Medicare before they try to shove some other plan down our throat. You DO know that the Federal Government runs Medicare, right? Clean your own house first before you start talking about someone else's. Michelle: Please prove to ME where you get your information that so many DO NOT have healthcare. The street runs both ways, doesn’t it?

I’ve had insurance at every single job I’ve had. don’t know what kind of people you are talking about. If they are in the service industry (waitress, bartender), they are definitely eligible for Medicaid. I know people who make the same money as I do and they are still eligible for a medical card from the state if their employer doesn’t offer insurance. Where do YOU get your information from?

The “evidence” supporting the fact of rich Americans not having an insurance plan has been in all the newspapers. What planet are you on?

As far as your connections to people who are dissatisfied with their health care coverage, I’m sorry that you don’t know very many people. Whoever I talk to about it, doesn’t want the government intruding in their health care. WE ARE ALL SATISFIED. Maybe the government needs to root out all that fraud Obamadolf is talking about in Medicare before they try to shove some other plan down our throat. You DO know that the Federal Government runs Medicare, right? Clean your own house first before you start talking about someone else’s.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1415 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:47:53 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1415 Patrick, Patrick: obviously, you just don't get it. Obamadolf is STARTING out just like Hitler did. I'm not 'minimmizing' anything. I'm warning YOU that if he is allowed to continue, then he will get just as much power as Hitler did BECAUSE no one believed what Hitler was really going to do. omg. 'in history by a narcissistic, ego maniacal, Aryan racist ' just substitute the word 'black' for 'Aryan' and you have Obamadolf. Read his book and you'll see how racist he is. Actually, come to think of it, Obamadolf is only 1/8 black, he is mostly white (on his mother's side) and 3/8 Arabian (white) on his father's side. Look it up. You can't give me any answers because you don't have any. There are others on this blog that have agreed with me, yet you don't mention them at all. Why? Patrick, Patrick: obviously, you just don’t get it. Obamadolf is STARTING out just like Hitler did. I’m not ‘minimmizing’ anything. I’m warning YOU that if he is allowed to continue, then he will get just as much power as Hitler did BECAUSE no one believed what Hitler was really going to do. omg.

‘in history by a narcissistic, ego maniacal, Aryan racist ‘ just substitute the word ‘black’ for ‘Aryan’ and you have Obamadolf. Read his book and you’ll see how racist he is. Actually, come to think of it, Obamadolf is only 1/8 black, he is mostly white (on his mother’s side) and 3/8 Arabian (white) on his father’s side. Look it up.

You can’t give me any answers because you don’t have any. There are others on this blog that have agreed with me, yet you don’t mention them at all. Why?

]]> By: Patrick Adkins http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1414 Patrick Adkins Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:59:15 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1414 Sheila, Thank You for another bucket of crazy. I have never claimed to have any answers and have only posted two comments. The latter only pointing out how ignorant your ramblings make you sound but you didn't even get that. I would, like other have, try to point out your inaccuracies but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Enjoy the world you have created in your own mind. Your statements continually make you sound like a lunatic. I hope everyone else can ignore your future post as I will be doing so constructive conversation can continue. OK I can't resist just this one. How dare you minimize the suffering millions have undergone because of the mass genocide caused by Adolf Hitler. If you don't see how daft it is to compare the worst genocide in history by a narcissistic, ego maniacal, Aryan racist to Obama's liberal health care reform then you must truly be the most feeble minded person I have ever had the displeasure of talking to. Sheila,
Thank You for another bucket of crazy. I have never claimed to have any answers and have only posted two comments. The latter only pointing out how ignorant your ramblings make you sound but you didn’t even get that. I would, like other have, try to point out your inaccuracies but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Enjoy the world you have created in your own mind. Your statements continually make you sound like a lunatic. I hope everyone else can ignore your future post as I will be doing so constructive conversation can continue.

OK I can’t resist just this one. How dare you minimize the suffering millions have undergone because of the mass genocide caused by Adolf Hitler. If you don’t see how daft it is to compare the worst genocide in history by a narcissistic, ego maniacal, Aryan racist to Obama’s liberal health care reform then you must truly be the most feeble minded person I have ever had the displeasure of talking to.

]]> By: Meghan http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1413 Meghan Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:51:44 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1413 Sheila I have chosen not to comment because I don't think it is productive to argue with people who are so far gone as you are, you are obviously more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing and could benefit from some anger management classes. However, I draw the line with your comparisons to Hitler. This is so small minded, mean spirited, hurtful and ignorant. To belittle the Holocaust is unforgiveable. If you knew anything about what people went through, families being ripped apart, murder, rape, torture... something is wrong with you if you are minimizing this. It totally distorts and disrespects the political arena and productive discussion as well. Most liberals refrained from comparing Bush to Hitler for this reason, and it is interesting that his approval of torture, limits on civil liberties, and treatment of minorities would be much closer to an appropriate comparison than a biracial liberal politician, but then again, that would require that you think about what you are saying and not just repeat what you have read in Glenn Beck's books. Sheila I have chosen not to comment because I don’t think it is productive to argue with people who are so far gone as you are, you are obviously more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing and could benefit from some anger management classes. However, I draw the line with your comparisons to Hitler. This is so small minded, mean spirited, hurtful and ignorant. To belittle the Holocaust is unforgiveable. If you knew anything about what people went through, families being ripped apart, murder, rape, torture… something is wrong with you if you are minimizing this. It totally distorts and disrespects the political arena and productive discussion as well. Most liberals refrained from comparing Bush to Hitler for this reason, and it is interesting that his approval of torture, limits on civil liberties, and treatment of minorities would be much closer to an appropriate comparison than a biracial liberal politician, but then again, that would require that you think about what you are saying and not just repeat what you have read in Glenn Beck’s books.

]]> By: Michelle http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1412 Michelle Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:01:20 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1412 Sheila said: "It’s already been proven that the Americans that don’t have insurance are mostly people who don’t want to pay insurance premiums and have the money to pay for their healthcare directly. What is wrong with that? As for people who don’t have it because they are poor. Come on, wake up, every state has some form of Medicaid for those people. Just because they choose not to join doesn’t mean OUR healthcare plans need to be changed and/or we don’t need to force them to pay a penalty or go to jail for it! " I would like to question what evidence she has to support her assertion that most Americans without insurance do so out of CHOICE, because they have the money to pay for their healthcare directly. I would also question her assertion that those who don't have it because they are poor have the option of Medicaid for their healthcare services. She clearly has not grasped the difficulties that ordinary working people have with ensuring that they and their families have health coverage. It is not because they choose not to have it, but because it is unaffordable and they earn too much to be able to qualify for Medicaid. She does not understand that having a right to care at HOSPITAL is not adequate. Why should people have to wait until they are in a health crisis to be able to obtain medical care? Why should they have to leave their perfectly treatable conditions untreated until they become a serious threat? We need affordable, ordinary care that can support our country's health and well-being - not just catastrophic emergency care. She is about the only person I have seen who is utterly content with the current system. She is clearly an out-lier in terms of her experience of healthcare (or maybe that is an out-liar). Sheila said: “It’s already been proven that the Americans that don’t have insurance are mostly people who don’t want to pay insurance premiums and have the money to pay for their healthcare directly. What is wrong with that? As for people who don’t have it because they are poor. Come on, wake up, every state has some form of Medicaid for those people. Just because they choose not to join doesn’t mean OUR healthcare plans need to be changed and/or we don’t need to force them to pay a penalty or go to jail for it! ”

I would like to question what evidence she has to support her assertion that most Americans without insurance do so out of CHOICE, because they have the money to pay for their healthcare directly.

I would also question her assertion that those who don’t have it because they are poor have the option of Medicaid for their healthcare services.

She clearly has not grasped the difficulties that ordinary working people have with ensuring that they and their families have health coverage. It is not because they choose not to have it, but because it is unaffordable and they earn too much to be able to qualify for Medicaid.

She does not understand that having a right to care at HOSPITAL is not adequate. Why should people have to wait until they are in a health crisis to be able to obtain medical care? Why should they have to leave their perfectly treatable conditions untreated until they become a serious threat?

We need affordable, ordinary care that can support our country’s health and well-being – not just catastrophic emergency care.

She is about the only person I have seen who is utterly content with the current system. She is clearly an out-lier in terms of her experience of healthcare (or maybe that is an out-liar).

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1411 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:24:46 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1411 Patrick??? I don't watch television except for movies, let alone Fox News, which I think anyway is one of the more UNbiased news sources from what I've seen quoted. I believe it's you who is the HATER. A) I don't keep a gun in my house, but I reserve the right to have one if I change my mind. B) I don't even 'hate' Obamadolf. I just believe he is following in the footsteps of Adolf Hitler, hence my nickname for him. Please read your history for all the similarities. C) Why are YOU being inciteful and hateful by telling me to shut up? Just because you don't like my views? I haven't told anyone to shut up on this blog, but you have. Who is the hater? D) Please tell me what facts of mine are wrong. Please be specific. Generalities really don't prove a darn thing. E) Anti-democratice?? This country is not a democracy, it is a republic. Again, please check your history books. Yes, I AM pro-capitalist, NOT socialist as is anyone who supports Obamadolf's policies and practices. America is NOT and WILL NOT become a socialist nation, regardless of how a few of you feel. If you really like socialism, please move to China or Cuba or North Korea. I'm sure you'll enjoy all your "freedoms" there. F) Please, please tell me what "bad things" I want to happen to this country. I think you're confusing me with the Left and Obamadolf, who has been apologizing for America for a long time now. G) "because all you want are all initiatives brought forth by this administration to fail. It doesn’t matter how many people it would help..." How are those bailouts and stimulous plans working out for you? Bankruptcies after bailouts...companies still closing...jobs still being lost in the millions...unemployment at its highest...Please tell me what initiatives Obamadolf has pushed through have worked out so far? He's been in office almost 10 months now. How much longer before we're ALL bankrupt?? Please explain it all to me, Patrick, since you say YOU have all the answers. Patrick??? I don’t watch television except for movies, let alone Fox News, which I think anyway is one of the more UNbiased news sources from what I’ve seen quoted.

I believe it’s you who is the HATER.

A) I don’t keep a gun in my house, but I reserve the right to have one if I change my mind.
B) I don’t even ‘hate’ Obamadolf. I just believe he is following in the footsteps of Adolf Hitler, hence my nickname for him. Please read your history for all the similarities.
C) Why are YOU being inciteful and hateful by telling me to shut up? Just because you don’t like my views? I haven’t told anyone to shut up on this blog, but you have. Who is the hater?
D) Please tell me what facts of mine are wrong. Please be specific. Generalities really don’t prove a darn thing.
E) Anti-democratice?? This country is not a democracy, it is a republic. Again, please check your history books. Yes, I AM pro-capitalist, NOT socialist as is anyone who supports Obamadolf’s policies and practices. America is NOT and WILL NOT become a socialist nation, regardless of how a few of you feel. If you really like socialism, please move to China or Cuba or North Korea. I’m sure you’ll enjoy all your “freedoms” there.
F) Please, please tell me what “bad things” I want to happen to this country. I think you’re confusing me with the Left and Obamadolf, who has been apologizing for America for a long time now.
G) “because all you want are all initiatives brought forth by this administration to fail. It doesn’t matter how many people it would help…” How are those bailouts and stimulous plans working out for you? Bankruptcies after bailouts…companies still closing…jobs still being lost in the millions…unemployment at its highest…Please tell me what initiatives Obamadolf has pushed through have worked out so far? He’s been in office almost 10 months now. How much longer before we’re ALL bankrupt??

Please explain it all to me, Patrick, since you say YOU have all the answers.

]]> By: Sheila http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1409 Sheila Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:11:03 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1409 Poison? Hmmm. The truth is hard to swallow, when you've been wallowing in lies and deceit. How much is Obamadolf paying you 3 guys? Not one of you that are FOR the public option has stated any details at all. You guys are the ones calling ME names because of my opinion. (By the way, politicians are fair game.) We've all brought up the disadvantages and mandates that can't be paid for in these many and varied bills, of which even Baucus is saying will be changed as soon as it is voted on AFTER it has been voted on. Do you get it? They put up one version, it gets voted on, then they substitute with another version. The old bait and switch. Where are all your details of cost reduction, hm? As far as who is stalling who, the Republicans have brought bills in front of the Congress for tort reform and allowing peopke to purchase insurance across state lines where we can comparison shop and who is voting against these REFORMS??? Democrats. Admit it. Poison? Hmmm.

The truth is hard to swallow, when you’ve been wallowing in lies and deceit. How much is Obamadolf paying you 3 guys? Not one of you that are FOR the public option has stated any details at all. You guys are the ones calling ME names because of my opinion. (By the way, politicians are fair game.) We’ve all brought up the disadvantages and mandates that can’t be paid for in these many and varied bills, of which even Baucus is saying will be changed as soon as it is voted on AFTER it has been voted on. Do you get it? They put up one version, it gets voted on, then they substitute with another version. The old bait and switch. Where are all your details of cost reduction, hm? As far as who is stalling who, the Republicans have brought bills in front of the Congress for tort reform and allowing peopke to purchase insurance across state lines where we can comparison shop and who is voting against these REFORMS??? Democrats. Admit it.

]]> By: Scott McClure http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1405 Scott McClure Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:14:45 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1405 Gary, if you take your argument to it's logical conclusion you are saying we should abandon Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Is that what you are advocating? It may have worked in the 1800s, but I don't think that is where we want to be as a country now. It's interesting, we used to claim to have the best form of government in the world, and now we have no confidence that we can even do what virtually every other developed country in the world has done. Our confidence in the insurance companies is so great and our confidence in our government is so small. Maybe it's because our government depends on us the citizens making informed decisions, and is all we want to do is sit around and call each other names. Does not bode well for our future. Gary, if you take your argument to it’s logical conclusion you are saying we should abandon Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Is that what you are advocating? It may have worked in the 1800s, but I don’t think that is where we want to be as a country now. It’s interesting, we used to claim to have the best form of government in the world, and now we have no confidence that we can even do what virtually every other developed country in the world has done. Our confidence in the insurance companies is so great and our confidence in our government is so small. Maybe it’s because our government depends on us the citizens making informed decisions, and is all we want to do is sit around and call each other names. Does not bode well for our future.

]]> By: Gary Layton http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1404 Gary Layton Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:41:52 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1404 Maybe you shouldn't be using social security and Medicare as your examples. That's EXACTLY why we shouldn't do this. Social Security is on its way to insolvency. Medicare, by their own admission, has 500 billion dollars of fraud and waste. People on Medicare can't find doctors who will accept Medicare. If bringing us all down to the lowest common denominator is your goal, then, national health care is the best path. This is also not about Democrats and Republicans. It is a discussion of whether you believe that the federal government is a capable administrator of our single most important individual asset, our health. I don't think they are. Maybe you shouldn’t be using social security and Medicare as your examples. That’s EXACTLY why we shouldn’t do this. Social Security is on its way to insolvency. Medicare, by their own admission, has 500 billion dollars of fraud and waste. People on Medicare can’t find doctors who will accept Medicare. If bringing us all down to the lowest common denominator is your goal, then, national health care is the best path.
This is also not about Democrats and Republicans. It is a discussion of whether you believe that the federal government is a capable administrator of our single most important individual asset, our health. I don’t think they are.

]]> By: LEU http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1403 LEU Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:31:23 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1403 Gary - you're right. Al and the rest of the idiot democRATS just don't understand this issue. It's not about health care - it's about CONTROL - and the democRATS are trying to socialize 1/6 of the economy and buy votes. Al - why should we trust government? Name one thing they have ever done better than the private sector (beyond their charter of defense, etc.) It's government's fault health care is where it is because of the mandates required, and the tort provisions, etc. which drive up costs. There is nothing wrong with healthcare in the US - there is something wrong with the payment of healthcare and most of it is the government's fault. Gary – you’re right. Al and the rest of the idiot democRATS just don’t understand this issue. It’s not about health care – it’s about CONTROL – and the democRATS are trying to socialize 1/6 of the economy and buy votes. Al – why should we trust government? Name one thing they have ever done better than the private sector (beyond their charter of defense, etc.) It’s government’s fault health care is where it is because of the mandates required, and the tort provisions, etc. which drive up costs. There is nothing wrong with healthcare in the US – there is something wrong with the payment of healthcare and most of it is the government’s fault.

]]> By: Randi G http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1402 Randi G Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:26:17 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1402 Patrick Adkins -- thank you for saying what so many of us have been thinking for two weeks now. Sheila's poison is getting more and more difficult to take. Patrick Adkins — thank you for saying what so many of us have been thinking for two weeks now. Sheila’s poison is getting more and more difficult to take.

]]> By: al simon http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1401 al simon Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:06:48 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1401 Patrick Adkins your right on we need a new health care system and the republicans and insurance companies have been fighting reform for over 50 years. Its the same kind of thinking that fought social security and medicare. Our friends sheila and gary layton talk about a rushed, confused bill that congress is debating. Its the same talking points over and over again. Don't trust government, dont trust the democrats, dont trust anyone except the insurance companies. The time for change has come, the time to tell the insurance companies no more, the time to tell fox and lumbaugh and beck and all the rest of the right wing kooks no more, the time for reform is now and the most important piece of reform is THE PUBLIC OPTION. Patrick Adkins your right on we need a new health care system and the republicans and insurance companies have been fighting reform for over 50 years. Its the same kind of thinking that fought social security and medicare. Our friends sheila and gary layton talk about a rushed, confused bill that congress is debating. Its the same talking points over and over again. Don’t trust government, dont trust the democrats, dont trust anyone except the insurance companies. The time for change has come, the time to tell the insurance companies no more, the time to tell fox and lumbaugh and beck and all the rest of the right wing kooks no more, the time for reform is now and the most important piece of reform is THE PUBLIC OPTION.

]]> By: Gary Layton http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1400 Gary Layton Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:20:22 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1400 Some of you people are confusing identification of a poorly thought out plan, and opposition to progress. When a president encourages our representitives to rush through and pass over 1,000 pages of legislation without reading it before they leave for summer vacation, it is irresponsible. When he comes back and implores passage of a bill that is ill defined, confusing, and contradicts itself, he loses the trust of many of us. When real problems exist that are completely ignore in over 1,000 pages of legislation (tort reform), then many of us question whether the president even has a grip on the problem. Nobody denies that the rapid rise of the cost of providing, and the cost of owning a health insurance policy is a problem. But to accept that 39 million more are to be covered, and much of that additional cost will be paid for out of Medicare fraud and waste is ludicris. Medicare... the program where they claim the funds are coming from is their program! If they can't run that, why would you believe that they can help you here? What kind of businessman are you if you would keep going back to the same supplier after they have identified their incompentence? And the electioneering claim that $2,500 per person was to be 'gained back' through automation of medical records is more of the same. You've probably automated customer records at some point in your business. Tell me; is that when your profits went through the roof? No, that just makes the day-to-day administration a little bit better. So my question is this; if none of the individual points supporting the economics of this proposal are sound, how sound can the entire proposal be? Some of you people are confusing identification of a poorly thought out plan, and opposition to progress.

When a president encourages our representitives to rush through and pass over 1,000 pages of legislation without reading it before they leave for summer vacation, it is irresponsible. When he comes back and implores passage of a bill that is ill defined, confusing, and contradicts itself, he loses the trust of many of us. When real problems exist that are completely ignore in over 1,000 pages of legislation (tort reform), then many of us question whether the president even has a grip on the problem.

Nobody denies that the rapid rise of the cost of providing, and the cost of owning a health insurance policy is a problem. But to accept that 39 million more are to be covered, and much of that additional cost will be paid for out of Medicare fraud and waste is ludicris. Medicare… the program where they claim the funds are coming from is their program! If they can’t run that, why would you believe that they can help you here? What kind of businessman are you if you would keep going back to the same supplier after they have identified their incompentence?

And the electioneering claim that $2,500 per person was to be ‘gained back’ through automation of medical records is more of the same. You’ve probably automated customer records at some point in your business. Tell me; is that when your profits went through the roof? No, that just makes the day-to-day administration a little bit better.

So my question is this; if none of the individual points supporting the economics of this proposal are sound, how sound can the entire proposal be?

]]> By: Patrick Adkins http://www.businessbrief.com/biz-leaders-say-no-thanks-to-health-reform/comment-page-3/#comment-1399 Patrick Adkins Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:49:29 +0000 http://www.businessbrief.com/?p=3751#comment-1399 Sheila, shut up. No one is interested in listening to you constantly editorialize the half truths Fox spews all day long. Your "facts" are wrong consistently. People here are trying to have a discussion and you are being hateful and ignorant. "Obamadolf"? Really? Why don't you just go dance around with your other assault weapon wearing friends and call for more civil liberties as you promote bills that take them away. I'm sure you were one of the people cheering when Chicago didn't get the Olympic bid. See anyone can make up inflammatory hate based arguments but it makes them sound stupid and is completely unproductive. Wanting bad things to happen to your country to promote personal agendas against a group of people is anti-democratic at best not pro-capitalism. Your declamation shows how truly ignorant you are and exactly why the conservatives are impossible to work with. No concessions would be good enough because all you want are all initiatives brought forth by this administration to fail. It doesn't matter how many people it would help and even if it had no effect on you. Spew your anti-America hate somewhere else. I'm tired of reading it. Sheila, shut up. No one is interested in listening to you constantly editorialize the half truths Fox spews all day long. Your “facts” are wrong consistently. People here are trying to have a discussion and you are being hateful and ignorant.

“Obamadolf”? Really? Why don’t you just go dance around with your other assault weapon wearing friends and call for more civil liberties as you promote bills that take them away. I’m sure you were one of the people cheering when Chicago didn’t get the Olympic bid. See anyone can make up inflammatory hate based arguments but it makes them sound stupid and is completely unproductive.

Wanting bad things to happen to your country to promote personal agendas against a group of people is anti-democratic at best not pro-capitalism.

Your declamation shows how truly ignorant you are and exactly why the conservatives are impossible to work with. No concessions would be good enough because all you want are all initiatives brought forth by this administration to fail. It doesn’t matter how many people it would help and even if it had no effect on you.

Spew your anti-America hate somewhere else. I’m tired of reading it.

]]>